The Tunnel

nique ... really?

Yep... I've always felt he was a better player than most give him credit for / realize... just played in ATL which means no one cared (as evidenced by most players that go there).

nique didn't play defensive and was a ball stop.

a lot of guys that had great numbers didn't know how to win. i put a value on rings, that's why wilt for his insane numbers has a lot of karl malone in him.

russell let him have the first 3 quarters, as long as he and the celts had the last one.

Hakeem won his first championship without any other great players, given Jordan wasn't playing, but still, was he the first?

you could argue last year's mavs and the lakers the year before that were the worst champions since the 70's. pistons also in that mix from a few years back.

Tayshaun Prince and Rasheed Wallace.

I lived close to Detroit during their glory years. That was an awesome team to follow.

Jordan by a good bit, and I'm a big Lakers / Kobe fan. A couple of things separate them; namely Jordan's superior defense and efficiency/shot selection. Another big factor is MJ had enormous hands that made it easier for him to possess the ball in traffic and a better finisher at the rim than Kobe.

Kobe actually has a more diverse skillet than MJ offensively. He has better range and a solid left handed shot. He's incorporated a bunch of moves from other players effectively such as Hakeem, Duncan, Dirk's one foot fadeaway, and of course a litany of MJ moves. However, despite this vast arsenal he is not as efficient or effective as MJ was because MJ did a better job of working himself into higher percentage shots and his midrange was so effective. Kobe has become much more of a jump shooter later in his career and will too often settle for difficult outside shots rather than using his skills to work for a higher % shot, be it with or without the ball.

Its similar to how Kobe is clearly a more skilled player than Shaq, but what Shaq did was much more efficient and effective due to his size and strength. MJ had slightly fewer tools, but excelled at what he did and used them more effectively than Kobe has.

I think it's Jordan hands down. Not only was he the most unstoppable offensive player in the league as a guard, he also was one of the best defensive players in the league. He made the NBA All Defensive Team something like 9-10 times and I know was Defensive MVP at least once.

I think Lebron's game has a long way to go to equal Jordan but I also think he get's a little bit of a bad rap. Jordan's Bulls didn't make the Finals until his 7th year in the league. Didn't make the Easter Conference Finals until year 5. Lebron with NOBODY else on the roster made the Finals in year 4 and he was only 23 year old.

IMO, Lebron has the potential to be the most dominant player ever. But I doubt he or any NBA player at this point in time has intestinal fortitude to push to be the best. Quite frankly, they're all just too rich to care.

My top 5 all time would be MJ, Magic, Bird, Russell and Robertson. Kareem is a very close 6th. I have to discount Wilt and Shaq just because IMO, just because you're twice as big as everyone else doesn;t make you a better player. Those two guys just didn;t have anyone that could physically stop them. Getting the ball on the block and going through the defensive player because you outweigh him by 60 pounds is not a skill.